20 Comments Add your own

• 1. Nick  |  July 11th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

  

  Just out of curiosity… what is it about Mexican immigrants that you don’t like? Our current immigration laws punish people just for being Mexican be creating quotas for people of particular nationalities.

  Why can’t “comprehensive” immigration reform remove that? After all, if you believe in equal rights, and equal protection under the law… shouldn’t our immigration law reflect that same ideal?

  Why should our immigration laws be racist?

• 2. Elliot  |  July 12th, 2010 at 7:25 am

  

  I went back and looked and I didn’t see the word “Mexican” anywhere in my post.

  Comprehensive Immigration Reform is code for amnesty (which I am against, having lived through the last amnesty to end all amnesty).

  If you want to talk about what the rules should be for legal immigration, I’ll be happy to have a discussion about it, but please don’t change the topic and call me a racist in the process.

• 3. Dan  |  July 12th, 2010 at 10:42 am

  

  Stay classy, Nick
  The recession is doing wonders for getting rid of illegal immigrants. They are not coming over the borders as fast and they also leaving at a pretty fast rate.
  So, if you go after the employers, the people who commit crimes or collect social services such as welfare, it will decrease significantly the number of illegals.

• 4. Nick  |  July 12th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

  

  So just that I’m clear Elliot…

  You can say that “comprehensive immigration reform” is a codeword for “amnesty”… But that “illegal immigration” is not a codeword for “Mexican immigration”?

  Because let’s face facts… when talking about illegal immigration, it is generally a discussion about immigration from Mexico. I rarely hear complaints about all those illegal immigrants from Germany.

  And I didn’t call you racist… I said the immigration rules were racist. Which they are almost be definition. We have completely different rules for who can immigrate into this country, and how, based purely on that person’s race and/or country of origin.

• 5. John Foust  |  July 12th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

  

  Oh, just “them” is a good enough shorthand, don’t you think? Everyone knows who you’re talking about, particularly if you only hang out with people who look like they could be your cousin and who think just like you do.

• 6. Elliot  |  July 12th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

  

  Sorry guys, I don’t accept that merely talking about a problem that primarily involves anyone other than white males is prima facie proof of racism.

  If that were the case then we could never address:

  Islamic terrorism
  The failure of inner city schools
  Illegal immigration
  Abortion
  Single parenthood
  The death penalty
  Etc., etc., etc.

  And I’m aware that most illegals are hispanics. But I’d object just as strenuously if the 12 million illegals came from Canada. (Highly unlikely considering 12 million people would be a THIRD of Canada’s entire population. Think about that for a minute.)

• 7. John Foust  |  July 12th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

  

  The vast majority of the Canajun population lives within 150 kilometres of the border. It’s almost as if they’re getting ready to rush the border to get in. We’d be overwhelmed by the politeness and practicality.

• 8. Elliot  |  July 12th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

  

  Having grown up right across the border from Canada, I have to say their reputation for politeness is over-rated.

  (The same goes for Minnesota.)

  Actually, despite the evidence of the Cheddarsphere, Wisconsin has the nicest folks I’ve run across.

• 9. Nick  |  July 12th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

  

  But Elliot, we don’t have abortion laws that say that people of Mexican descent can’t have abortions, but people who are of German descent can have abortions. We don’t have laws that say that only black people, or Mexicans, etc can be put to death for murder, while white people aren’t allowed. We don’t write those things into law.

  On the other hand, our immigration laws do make those types of arbitrary determinations… in law.

  Moreover, it’s fairly foolish to talk about stopping illegal immigration, without talking about WHY they immigrate here illegally.

  The fact that it would take more than 100 years for a Mexican to legally immigrate here is a pretty good reason for that person to not even bother trying. After all, he’d be dead before getting to the head of that line.

  As long as there is a strong enough draw for immigration into this country, people WILL try to come here. And as we should have learned time and time again… when you try to ban something that people want enough, they will break the law to get it anyway (see alcohol, drugs, etc.)

• 10. Elliot  |  July 12th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

  

  I can’t comment on the quota system because I know absolutely nothing about it.

  And I absolutely believe the solution is on the demand side.

  Stiff enough penalties would end (or at least greatly curtail) the hiring of illegals.

  That said, I love legal immigration. One of my best friends was born in China and his wife was born in the Philippines.

  Of course, they worked hard to come to this country legally. I don’t think people who break the rules are entitled to the same deal they earned with their diligence.

• 11. John Foust  |  July 12th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

  

  Watch out! The Mama Grizzlies have it all figger’d out!

• 12. Dan  |  July 12th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

  

  The problem with people living in Wisconsin or other areas hit by illegal immigrants and hit hard, they really have no clue what they are talking about. The read the talking points from either side and believe them.
  I live Vegas and see first hand the problems illegals cause. And it is not all Mexicans, but most are from below the border, but we have Asian illegals, European and Africans.
  You don’t see the problems they cause schools. You don’t see the problems they cause in the hospitals. You don’t see the problems they cause when the illegals turn to crime. You don’t see the problems when you are involved in an accident with an illegal and they run away, causing your insurance to go up.
  So, you can sit up on your high horse and pontificate, but until you see it first hand, your really don’t know what they hell you are talking about. And that goes for both sides. Those talking about deporting everyone are just as stupid as those who say that illegals cause very little harm to the U.S. and we should just let them in and for those that are in, pay a fine and back taxes etc and let them stay.

• 13. John Foust  |  July 12th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

  

  Not to mention all the cheap landscaping and construction services they offer.

• 14. Nick  |  July 12th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

  

  @Dan – I know exactly what I’m talking about – I was born and raised in Southern California. And you did an excellent job of talking about a lot of different “problems” with absolutely no statistics, or backing information.

  Of course, many of the “problems” that you talked about are caused by our overly harsh immigration system that keeps immigrants from integrating into our society, instead of creating an immigration system where people become “members” of our society.

• 15. Elliot  |  July 12th, 2010 at 8:10 pm

  

  Nick, are you arguing for unlimited immigration?

• 16. Dan  |  July 13th, 2010 at 1:28 am

  

  At Nick, so what if you “lived” in Southern CA. When was that? If you stat’s, google themselves, I don’t have the time to play your stupid games. I go by what I see, read, hear and analyze. If you want more information, do it yourself.
  I also know about legal immigration as my ex-wife was a legal immigrant and I went through all the steps with her to get her citizenship. Got burned in the end, but that’s another story.
  So, go and play your silly gotcha games by yourself. Seems like you have plenty of time to do that.

• 17. Elliot  |  July 13th, 2010 at 7:43 am

  

  Remember guys, I encourage disagreement and discourage disagreeableness. Say anything you want about a person’s ideas, but please don’t make it personal.

  Don’t take this as aimed at you, Dan. A couple of the comment threads have started getting a little hot and it was time for a reminder.

  Thanks!

• 18. John Foust  |  July 13th, 2010 at 10:10 am

  

  And no matter how personally difficult this might be, don’t forget to restrain yourself from being more amusing than Elliot.

  On an unrelated note, am I the only one who sees “&hellip” after each name? As in “17. Elliot&hellip”. I know it’s the HTML ellipsis. Is the issue on my end or yours?

• 19. Nick  |  July 13th, 2010 at 10:28 am

  

  Dan,

  If you know all about legal immigration, then you know that the path to citizenship for a spouse of a citizen is about a million times easier than someone who has no relationship to a citizen at all. It’s not exactly a fair comparison.

  To Elliot’s question regarding “unlimited immigration”… honestly not quite sure. I certainly know that we have a much larger capacity to accept immigrants than most “anti-immigration” folks are willing to admit. As a society right now, we’re acting very xenophobic. The current limits on the number of immigrants we accept is stupidly low.

  I also think we’d be much better off with a more robust visa/guest worker system. There are plenty of people who just want to come up here to work, and not necessarily become citizens, and we should let them… and create a good system to track them, instead of pushing them into a black market where nobody benefits.

• 20. Billiam  |  July 14th, 2010 at 5:49 am

  

  Nick, please be specific. Most people who are against Illegal Immigration don’t have an issue with Legal Immigration. Don’t lump them all in. It’s like the bs line that people are against stem cell research when it’s embryonic stem cell research that they’re against. As I’m sure you know, there is a difference. This prevents misunderstandings.

  As to letting people in to work, all for it. When the unemployment for citizens is lower, that is.

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