Forgive student loans?

October 21st, 2011

My guess is most of the people who want to forgive student loans are the same people advocating spending policies that are burying the U.S. in multigenerational debt.

In other words, cialis generic pills let’s forgive moderate sums of money willingly borrowed by some young people while continuing to borrow unimaginable amounts in the name of children too young to decide for themselves.

Sounds fair to me.

Entry Filed under: Observations

16 Comments Add your own

  • 1. BobG  |  October 21st, 2011 at 10:16 am

    I remember working a lot of late nights to pay for school; it never occurred to me that someone else should pay for it.

  • 2. Debunked  |  October 21st, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Yes, Bob, and thirty years ago, a good education at a state school also cost somewhere around $2000 a year, not over $10000.

    There’s a difference between education costing $10000 over four years and costing $60000 over four years.

    I’m not saying that I think student loans should be forgiven. But I am saying that you are being very naive if you think that people can easily afford a college degree by working a night shift at McDonald’s these days.

  • 3. BobG  |  October 21st, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Never worked fast food, thanks, though I was only making $1.50 an hour. Went back to school a few years ago; no student loans, just working and going to school. Most everyone I knew there was doing the same thing.

  • 4. John Foust  |  October 21st, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    My guess is that the average person asking for student loan forgiveness is also opposed to the war spending, the war on drugs, and imperialism in general, so that’ll save you some future debt right there. You are aware that a good share of the OWS protesters are fans of Ron Paul and libertarianism, right?

    My January 1985 spring tuition check for one of my last semesters at UW-Madison was $639.50, or $1,331 in today’s dollars according to one inflation calculator.

    Last year the Fed said there’s about $826 billion in credit card debt and that student loan debt matched it for the first time.

  • 5. TerryN  |  October 23rd, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    There’s a reason tuition costs went up over 4x the rate of inflation. Same reason we had the housing bubble.

  • 6. John Foust  |  October 24th, 2011 at 8:46 am

    Easy availability of student loans, and new mail-order / online colleges eager to make money on those loans?

  • 7. Debunked  |  October 24th, 2011 at 9:40 am

    It’s not just the easy availability of student loans, though I know that likes to be picked on a lot.

    In the 50s and 60s, blue collar factory and manufacturing jobs (backed by unions, I’ll just toss in there) paid very good standards of living. A single income from a blue collar worker could decently support a family of four.

    Fast forward to the 90s where these jobs get massively shipped overseas and the United States finalizes its complete paradigm shift from an industrialized economy into a service oriented economy.

    The remaining blue collar jobs barely pay enough for a single person to pay their bills, let alone raise a family.

    Meanwhile, these service oriented jobs increase the necessity of completely secondary education and two-income households become the norm for younger people to support a beginning family.

    Thus, more people are needed to work in higher skill-set jobs leading to a need for more people to enroll in higher education also leading to an increase in the demand and, thus, the cost of schooling.

    So, the question is – is the increase in demand due to the more readily available student loans (thus meaning that more people have access to college than before — which is a good thing) or is the increase in demand due to the shift in the types of jobs in the Americans economy?

  • 8. TerryN  |  October 24th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Another factor is that a HS diploma in the 50’s and 60’s was all you needed to be hired by any police or fire department. Now you need at least two years of post HS education to be considered. This is also true for every other non-manufacturing sector job, so it’s not just the shift to a service economy. Technology has also made service jobs more specialized.

    It might also have something to do with what fueled the housing bubble? It will be interesting to see what happens if/when there is massive default on government backed student loans.

  • 9. Debunked  |  October 25th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    End result is that the majority young people today are required to take out and, eventually, pay interest on extremely large sums of money in order to have a chance at finding a good job.

    Simple solution, since you can NOT default or declare bankruptcy on student loans, is student loans should be a 0% interest rate. There’s absolutely no risk to the banks that make these loans. The loanee can’t default and they’re government backed. Where’s the risk that warrants the reward?

    Right now student loans are simply a for profit with zero risk (or, more succinctly, privatized profits and socialized losses) exercise for the banks and the higher tuition goes, the more banks make. So, why would the big banks even remotely support lowering tuition rates at all?

  • 10. John Foust  |  October 25th, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    By “can’t default” you mean “can’t stop paying”?

  • 11. Debunked  |  October 25th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Well, you can stop paying and default in that sense, so yes, you are correct there. :p

    But it is quite possible your paycheck or tax refunds are directly intercepted in order to pay back that loan.

    One way or another, short of living “off the grid” you’re going to be paying back a student loan.

  • 12. Dan  |  October 27th, 2011 at 2:23 am

    “End result is that the majority young people today are required to take out and, eventually, pay interest on extremely large sums of money in order to have a chance at finding a good job”
    Who forced or required them to borrow money? The interest is pretty low right now. Extremely large sums of money? Maybe in the Ivy League, but if you plan it out right, you can get by with minimal smount of loans, especially if you get grants and scholarships. (exception of going to medical college, but even those prospective doctors have options).
    And if you really want loan forgiveness, go to work on Indian reservations or inner cities for a few years and the loans disappear, depending on what field you are in.
    But the bottom line is that Philosphy majors and other worthless degrees should have to pay their loans back. They signed a contract, got an education and if they cannot d anything with it, tough luck, welcome to the real world.

  • 13. Debunked  |  October 27th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Have trouble with reading comprehension, Dan? Point out where I said loans should be forgiven. Oh right, I said student loans should be at 0% interest rate because there is no risk to the banks. It makes no difference if interest rates are low right now or not. Student loans are zero risk, there should be zero private reward. This should be a fairly easy concept for you to grasp.

    Further, paying $12-15k a year for a typical public school in tuition, plus another $1k in books, plus any other living expenses is far beyond the means of an 18-20 year old while working a part time. You would have to work a full time job at $8 an hour to even begin to cover that, and if you’re working a full time job your college education is going to tremendously suffer (and/or require you to go to school for more than four years and thus pay even more in tuition since you can’t take a full course load each semester).

    And let’s just ignore the fact that your statement “Philosphy majors and other worthless degrees” tells me that you must be extremely narrow minded and unable to see the worth in anything outside of your own monotonous existence where you were trained to do the same menial labor day after day with your “worthwhile degree and/or training.” You keep on enjoying that.

  • 14. Dan  |  October 28th, 2011 at 3:45 am

    Gee debunked, did I mention your name? Get over yourself, you must have the same disease Obama has- “It’s all about me” syndrome.
    A lot of protestors are complaing about student loan forgiveness- they want to get a free college education, paid for by taxpayers.
    And student loans are not a zero risk- people do default on them. And in your bold letters, you think that banks should give out free money for college education. Why? Of course, the Fed’s have taken over the student loan program but it makes no difference, they do endure costs from the paper work to the depositing the money into the student’s bank. Who pays for that? The U.S. taxpayers.
    But when I went to MATC and U.W. Madison, I did work 2 jobs and also was a volunteer firefighter and EMT for Maple Bluff. I didn’t get any loans or other help. It wasn’t easy, but I made it through college without taking a student loan. Is it easy? Nope but it is also not impossible.
    And to you debunked, I think I had you once in my special education class room. The class was called “I don’t have a clue how the world works” class. But you know, debunkked, I work as a teacher with severely mentally and physically disabled. Each one of my students has more class in their pinky finger than you will ever have over a life time.

  • 15. Debunked  |  October 28th, 2011 at 7:54 am

    “Gee debunked, did I mention your name? Get over yourself, you must have the same disease Obama has- “It’s all about me” syndrome.”

    Let’s see, you quoted my post directly above your post and made a direct response to it. So yes, I would say that is satisfactory evidence that you were responding to me in your first paragraph.

    And you used the linkage phrase “And you” to begin your second paragraph (am I still replying to you, Dan – see what I did there?), which does not in the slightest look like a change of intended audience.

    And when did you go to college? Was it today or was it 20 years ago? Even in the past 10 years, college tuition rates have risen dramatically. I really think you are just out of touch or so as not to even understand just how difficult it has gotten. And the stories “I did it in the 70s, 80s, or 90s” are completely unhelpful and illustrate the level of ignorance that people have about the problem today.

    Chart illustrating just how drastically tuition rates have risen over the past 15 years:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/chart-of-the-day-college-tuition-is-out-of-control/2011/10/27/gIQABi4sMM_blog.html

    Is it technically possible for an 18-year old with no experience and no degree to pay for college? Yes, it is technically possible, but you will almost certainly be working full time, with overtime, and still barely scraping by.

    Will their college education suffer? Almost certainly again, yes. So yes, fuck over your education so you can pay for your education. Nice trade off you’re suggesting there.

    Is it as easy as it was 10 years ago, let alone 20 years ago? Not in the slightest.

  • 16. Elliot  |  October 28th, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. See what happens when I don’t mind the store for a few days? You guys get the knives out. Please, don’t attack each other personally. Argue/discuss all you want, but try to remember there’s a real person with an actual family (who may or may not love them) on the other end of the conversation.

    I know it’s hard to keep in mind, but folks who disagree with you aren’t evil…usually…they just see the world from a different set of assumptions.

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Being in a wheelchair gives you a unique perspective on the world. This blog features many of my views on politics, art, science, and entertainment. My name is Elliot Stearns. More...

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